I have seen this critique of Piper over and over, and I am genuinely convinced it comes from a failure to listen to what he is actually saying...
Piper is in no way denying the doctrine of eternal security (better, perseverance of the saints). Even in this clip, he clarifies that the elect will never fall away. He is pushing back against the "one saved always saved" fire insurance kind of theology that has taken such firm root in evangelicalism and been so posionious. He is emphasizing that sin has real danger, and we should flee it because it poses an existential threat to us.
I hear him saying exactly what the author of Hebrews is saying...
"Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin." Heb 3:12–13.
The author of Hebrews is not here denying eternal security, and neither is Piper
So according to Piper, sin poses an existential threat to us, but the elect can still never fall away. Not sure if pure unthinking incoherency or talking out of both sides of his mouth like a serpent, but it's one of those two.
Anyone who watches the clip can easily see that Piper is in no way advocating that a true believer can lose their salvation. He even says in the clip that the elect will not fall away. But the warning passages are one of God’s means of producing perseverance in his elect. This sort of hit piece does not glorify God or edify the church.
This is not difficult. Obedience to commandments should never be treated dismissively. Faith without works is dead. Faith without works (obedience) is both not faith, and evidence of the lack of faith. If there is not generalized obedience, a person can know--if he has the understanding--that he is not saved. A person can proclaim faith with great emotion, but it is clear that Jesus looks at obedience. Or lack of it. Matthew 7:13-27, and 21-23. And multiple, multiple other New Testament passages.
Of course, I don't disagree. But I would disagree with any claims oft works being attributed to salvation. We can't save ourselves. While we were sinners, Christ died for us. Our good works are a sign of our faith, the fruits of our walk with Christ. None of my works will get me right with Christ. Whatever good works I have are a mere expression of my faith and love for God.
Many Christians fall into the trap of inadvertently working for salvation or trying to please God through good deeds as if that were possible. They say they don't, but they do; I see it all the time. Shoot, I fall into it sometimes. It's so easy to think we can somehow please God with good deeds.
As time goes on, I realize that good works are not for God but for us. We do good work to serve each other. This is faith, but not faith that should be measured as if one were trying to earn something.
I strive to know and obey commandments because I am convinced that that is what God requires. He knows we will fail. But He demands the striving. I try to love God and Christ; in one sense certainly I do. God is my Creator; Christ is my highly sacrificial Savior. But I think I do not strive to obey commandments primarily from love of God, or from love of others, but from love of myself: Not in the sense of high regard, but in the sense of concern for my own welfare. I believe that hell exists, and it absolutely terrifies me. I am not good; no one is. But that fear is faith, isn't it, and God counts it as righteousness. My concern with the statement "Salvation is by faith alone" is that I believe it misleads people. They interpret faith as mere intellectual belief, and then minimize or disregard the real need for real striving for obedience to commandments. Absolute error, I believe: Romans 2:3-4, then especially Hebrews 10:26-27. Also John 3:36 (ESV). As I see it, if we are not striving, we do not have faith; we do not believe what God tells us.
If one cannot fall away from the living God, then why did the Hebrew writer warn against it? You’re criticizing a point Piper made directly from the text.
I have seen this critique of Piper over and over, and I am genuinely convinced it comes from a failure to listen to what he is actually saying...
Piper is in no way denying the doctrine of eternal security (better, perseverance of the saints). Even in this clip, he clarifies that the elect will never fall away. He is pushing back against the "one saved always saved" fire insurance kind of theology that has taken such firm root in evangelicalism and been so posionious. He is emphasizing that sin has real danger, and we should flee it because it poses an existential threat to us.
I hear him saying exactly what the author of Hebrews is saying...
"Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin." Heb 3:12–13.
The author of Hebrews is not here denying eternal security, and neither is Piper
So according to Piper, sin poses an existential threat to us, but the elect can still never fall away. Not sure if pure unthinking incoherency or talking out of both sides of his mouth like a serpent, but it's one of those two.
Anyone who watches the clip can easily see that Piper is in no way advocating that a true believer can lose their salvation. He even says in the clip that the elect will not fall away. But the warning passages are one of God’s means of producing perseverance in his elect. This sort of hit piece does not glorify God or edify the church.
"Piper’s once-unassailable reformed street cred has crumbled."
This is an ironic sentence to include in this piece.
I prefer those not assured of their salvation over those who are. Those who lack assurance have greater motivation in seeking to obey commandments.
It's never been about obeying commandments. Obeying commandments is just what children of God do. Salvation is by faith alone.
This is not difficult. Obedience to commandments should never be treated dismissively. Faith without works is dead. Faith without works (obedience) is both not faith, and evidence of the lack of faith. If there is not generalized obedience, a person can know--if he has the understanding--that he is not saved. A person can proclaim faith with great emotion, but it is clear that Jesus looks at obedience. Or lack of it. Matthew 7:13-27, and 21-23. And multiple, multiple other New Testament passages.
Of course, I don't disagree. But I would disagree with any claims oft works being attributed to salvation. We can't save ourselves. While we were sinners, Christ died for us. Our good works are a sign of our faith, the fruits of our walk with Christ. None of my works will get me right with Christ. Whatever good works I have are a mere expression of my faith and love for God.
Many Christians fall into the trap of inadvertently working for salvation or trying to please God through good deeds as if that were possible. They say they don't, but they do; I see it all the time. Shoot, I fall into it sometimes. It's so easy to think we can somehow please God with good deeds.
As time goes on, I realize that good works are not for God but for us. We do good work to serve each other. This is faith, but not faith that should be measured as if one were trying to earn something.
Blessings
I strive to know and obey commandments because I am convinced that that is what God requires. He knows we will fail. But He demands the striving. I try to love God and Christ; in one sense certainly I do. God is my Creator; Christ is my highly sacrificial Savior. But I think I do not strive to obey commandments primarily from love of God, or from love of others, but from love of myself: Not in the sense of high regard, but in the sense of concern for my own welfare. I believe that hell exists, and it absolutely terrifies me. I am not good; no one is. But that fear is faith, isn't it, and God counts it as righteousness. My concern with the statement "Salvation is by faith alone" is that I believe it misleads people. They interpret faith as mere intellectual belief, and then minimize or disregard the real need for real striving for obedience to commandments. Absolute error, I believe: Romans 2:3-4, then especially Hebrews 10:26-27. Also John 3:36 (ESV). As I see it, if we are not striving, we do not have faith; we do not believe what God tells us.
Blessings to you.
If one cannot fall away from the living God, then why did the Hebrew writer warn against it? You’re criticizing a point Piper made directly from the text.